Forum Activity for @Clay

The machine is set for 220VAC 3-phase 50 Hz. It is possible to kit the units at the factory a 220VAC 60 Hz single-phase motor or to use a static phase inverter that you purchase on your own. The price, ex-factory is 9700 Euros, including the enrobing belt, which is 180mm wide. Crating (100 Euros) and shipping (depends on destination and method) are extra.

I believe the FBM machines also have removable/reversible augurs to make them easy to clean.

Depending on your production volumes, FBM also has a small tabletop machine (the Aura) that is inexpensive enough to be dedicated to white chocolate production. It has a 4kg work bowl and 10kg/hr throughput and offers continuous as opposed to batch operation and has an integrated vibration table.

The next FBM machine up offers the same throughput as a Color EX, but is less expensive while offering the removable/reversible augur and three-zone temperature control instead of the two zones in a Selmi, offering more control over crystallization.

I can offer discounts on FBM machines to ChocolateLife members - maybe enough to make it possible for you to purchase both machines for close to the same price as one Selmi Color EX.

Dear Matt,

Although I don't know the color ex (we have the selmi one system, the smallest). I definitely would buy a machine that can be opened and cleaned, and the Color Ex is such a system. We need to flush the machine and cocoa butter doesn't work because the pump doesn't pump pure butter, it is too liquid. So you'll loose the first 1-2 kg while changing chocolate. This is quite inefficient and I would wish we had bought the one with the removable srew. From the reseller I understood that it's quite simple to remove and clean it. For the rest the Selmi works excellent I must say, but perhaps others do as well.

Best regards,

Rodney Nikkels

Chocolatemakers, Amsterdam,

The Netherlands

Hello everyone,

Sorry if this has been covered before but I couldn't find the answer.

I'm currently looking to buy atempering machine for my startup. I live in SouthKorea and have access toSelmi,Gami, FBMbrand continuous tempering machines.

I need to change between white/dark/milk chocolates on a daily basis and prefer this process to be as conventient as possible. l'd alsoprefer to buy only 1 machineto save on costs. The COLOR EX model has caught my interest since its advertised with a removable screw for cleaning? I've contacted some other brands and they told me I'd have to clean the machine and flush it with cocoa butter to change from milk -> white, etc.

I'd like to know how easy it is to change chocolates with the COLOR EX model. How long does it take? is some chocolate wasted? What are the steps involved.

Any help would be appreciated, thank you

I have tried both methods and there are great recipes for both. I currently use the method that requires you to add all the ingredients (including the cream) at once. I find that you get a more complex flavor with deep dairy notes. Mark explains it really well. The method I use requires a lot more stirring as milk proteins will burn if not stirred frequently. Good luck!

Caramelization of sugar and of milk are two completely different things. Caramelization of sugar is a breakdown of the sugars, producing several new compounds that produce the brown color and it's flavor. With milk it's a Malliard reaction between the milk proteins and the reducing sugars (glucose, lactose, maltose..... but not sucrose). With milk the flavor and color are controlled by time, temperature, and pH. So even if you cook to the same temperature, but one batch taking longer than the other will give two different color/flavored caramels. Even changes in the water you use can make changes (pH, hardness...)

As far as recipes, there are hundreds. It's all a matter of what you want in color, flavor, and texture. Milk caramels are usually not colored by caramelized sugars as the temperature doesn't get high enough. Sugar will start caramelizing over 300F and developing a nice flavor about 345F. Much over that you start forming compounds (HMF) that give strong bitter notes.

I've been researching recipes for caramels for different chocolates and have been puzzled by an apparent difference in culinary opinions. I know the addition of dairy results in a creamier caramel, but some insist on adding it at the beginning of the cook, and others insist on adding it after caramelization of the sugar. It shouldn't affect the texture, should it? The cream still caramelizes whether it's with or after the sugar caramelizes, so I don't see any tasting difference. Really it comes down to stirring and time management from what I can see. To be honest, I haven't taken the exact recipe and made that single change to find out for myself - I'll report if I get it done this weekend - but I was wondering if any Chocolatelife people had their own theories/preferences.I would appreciate any ideas/opinions/data/speculation, etc....

I would also like to suggest that you check the accuracy of the thermocouple on your machine. Put a thermometer beside it as it goes through its cycles. With the exception of humidity (or the lack thereof) making the chocolate thicker or thinner, cocoa butter more or less follows the same non negotiable rules every time. Equipment does fail, so if you're having trouble one day and not the next, I would look at the tempering machine.

Cheers.

Brad

After completely starting over after washing out the machine and melting new chocolate, the temper today was perfect. Still not completely sure what happened, but it's solved for now.

Is it possible for bulk chocolate (like you buy from the supplier) to absorb moisture and that is what affects the temper?

Hi Jasmine,

Did you check your fridge? maybe the humidity is high in there, or the temperature is too low.

Another thing to look for is the temperature of your chocolate moulds, theymight be too cold when you pour into them.Another possible temperature shock scenario.

Good luck,

O

Hi jasmine, how did you get on? Did you take the working temperature of the chocolate when the machine said it was "in temper"?

I'm not familiar with either the chocolate, or the machine you are using, however what I would say is if the chocolate this time does not temper, then maybe temper a batch (1kg) by hand using the seeding method and see if you can temper it that way... if it tempers, then you know it is a problem with the machine.

Same thing happened just now to me with the 55%. Again, 64 degree fahrenheit, but this time 47% humidity. I dumped that batch of chocolate (which was the same chocolate just melted down again) out onto to a tray and started with a brand new box of Noel. I shall wait and see what happens with this new batch....

relative humidity and temp seem to be fine..

Hello everyone!

My little chocolate shop has been open for about 4 months now, and all of a sudden, I'm having tempering issues. (Of course it has to happen with 5 custom orders due in the next few days! Ugh!)

So, a little background. I'm using 2 Chocovision Revolation 3210s, and Noel chocolate (55% and 72%). The machine with the 72% has the new 'holey baffle' in it.

At the time of the difficulties, the kitchen was 64 degrees Fahrenheit, and humidity was 51%.

The 55% came into temper first, and the first test was horrible. All white and dusty, as if it wasn't in temper at all. Second test was the same, and the third. So...I hit the reset button on that one and moved on to the 72%. Exactly the same thing happened.

I'm assuming since the same situation happened to both machines, it was a environmental thing, rather than a machine malfunction.

Is 51% humidity too much? Is my room too cold? I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and this hasn't happened to me since I opened...

Thank you in advance for your help!

Look at the moisture level and the sugar types and levels.If the water isn't tied up enough by the sugars it will easily migrate into the chocolate, making the chocolate soft, and the center will shrink and firm up. How the chocolate is standardized to viscosityalsoinfluences how fast the migration occurs.

I exclusively use square magnetic molds for my truffles, and the same thing was happening to me. I reduced the amount of cream I used by about 2 tsp and haven't had the problem since.

Good luck!

Thank you!...I usually do but in this particular case I didn't. Thanks I will try again and see how it goes.

Do you let your ganache set overnight before you cap it or enrobe it ? The ganache will shrink and suck the sides of your chocolate in..

This is the short version to a long answer...

Hope it helps !!

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone can tell me why some of my chocolates sides cave in after a few days. Im' guessing its either from the shell being too thin or the mixture having too much moisture.

They look great at first and then a few days later. the sides are all concave.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you

Cocoa Jo

Hey Stu,

where about in New Zealand are you starting your business?

Thanks and a happy new year!

Anissa

Stu:

At that kind of throughput, a couple of options suggest themselves to me.

The first is a continuous machine like a Selmi Color EX. It's about 10,000 Euros ex-works Italy. It's sweet spot for production is right in the range you are talking about. As you mention it's not a great option as you can only afford one and if anything goes wrong ... The EX model has the removable augur making changeover faster.

Another continuous tempering option is the FBM Prima. This has a 7kg tank and an hourly capacity in the 35kg range, but the price is 6,000 Euros ex-works Italy, before a ChocolateLife member discount. You can run milk in one, dark in another, or the same chocolate in both to reach ~70kg/hr throughput. And you have a backup machine in case one goes down.

Another option is what are called "over/under" tempering tanks. These are basically two melting tanks, one positioned over the other. The top tank holds melted chocolate that is dripped into the bottom tank, The bottom tank is tempered using the seed method (there is an agitator), and chocolate is removed via a valve at the bottom of the lower tank. There are many operations that use this approach for very high volume production. The cost depends on the sizes of the tanks and whether or not there is a pump involved - but you should be able to buy two sets for the budget you're talking about. The vibrating table is not included, but you can get one that holds three full-size molds from Chocovision for about US$800.

:: Clay

Hi Clay,

Hourly throughput in the range of 50 - 90kg

Cheers

Stu

Sorry, throughput, not capacity: 25 kg/hr or 25 kg/day?

A machine has a work bowl capacity and an average hourly throughput capacity. A batch melter might have a high bowl capacity (e.g., 25kg, but if it take 1 hour to melt and temper 25kg, then its throughput is limited to the number of cycles in a day.

The small Selmi's have work bowl capacities that are small, but have throughput capacities that are multiples higher. If you only needed 25kg day of chocolate, you could get by with a machine with a 4kg work bowl capacity with an hourly throughput of 10kg.

Make sense?

Hi Clay

Good point, have edited my post above to include the relevant information, which is:

Continuous Automatic (would be nice!) or semi-automatic wheel machine (most likely what I can afford). I do not want a manual melter.

Size - 25kg capacity is about right for us.

Thanks

Stu

Stu:

What kind of hourly/daily production are you looking at?

Also - be aware of the difference between automatic tempering machines (i.e., continuous tempering machines, e.g., Selmi), semi-automatic machines (i.e., batch/wheel, e.g., Perfect, JVK), and melters (i.e., manual tempering).

Automatic is most expensive, and because of the electronics, most likely to break. These also offer the highest production capacity and throughput with enrobing, mold filling, and depositing options. Usually have buit-in vibrating tables.

Semi-automatic is middling expensive and are much more rugged. Second-highest capacity and throughput with enrobing options.

Manual are least expensive (though not cheap) and least likely to give problems. However, the require the highest degree of skill to use and need to be tweaked during the day. No options, everything is done by hand. Can be high throughput for skilled workers.

Which way to go depends on your confidence and your skill level as well as the mix of products you're making and how much chocolate you go through every day. If you can answer these last three questions, we can make better recommendations,

:: Clay

Hello!

It is finally that time - we have found a 300sqm site for our new factory/offices/cafe/showroom.

Next step - buy tempering machines. And getting them to New Zealand (for those geographically challenged, that's next to Australia. If you don't know where Australia is, you are probably a little too geographically challenged

I am so torn about what to buy. I want to have two machines, so I do not need to change out to mix between milk & dark. And to keep production in the event one needs servicing. But by buying 2, I will not be able to afford a Selmi.

I have considered 2 x Moldart machines as these are fairly reasonable in price.

I have heard a lot of people talk about Prefect machines, but haven't priced/examined in detail, but this could be an option.

Essentially, I don't want to spend more than $15,000 US - what would you do with that budget? I am looking for either continuous automatic tempering or a semi-automatic wheel machine. Must have vibrating table. Size - 25kg capacity would be the ideal size.

Lastly, anyone used Desserthouse? They are offering 40% off but I have never heard of them.

Thanks

Stu

If you are still tempering by hand, your chocolate will stay at your working temperature longer the larger the volume of chocolate you are working with. Reheat as needed as already suggested in the other post. There is no special trick - once you know how to temper, as you already do, it is pretty much all the same no matter how much chocolate you are working with.

Hi Nigel,

It sounds like your business is gorwing andthat's fantastic. What youneed in this case is a tempering machine. You just need to feed the machine the chocolate you use, set the right temperatures and you'll get excellent tempered chocolate. Plus think about all the time saved on tempering, re-tempering,cleaning...

Omar

Reheat as often as necessary with a heat gun, or add warm untempered chocolate. As long as you don't exceed the working temperature your chocolate will stay in temper.

I have only ever tempered small quantities for small batches of chocolate and this has been very successful and now need to produce larger batches - can anyone advise how to keep my tempered chocolate "in temper" so I can temper larger quantities and use throughout the day?

Many thanks

Nigel

For those of you interested, Adam finished his recipe tweaking and did a post on his blog back in Jan

http://www.parispatisseries.com/2012/01/18/parisian-hot-chocolate-recipe-chocolat-chaud/

Thanks Felipe, so the concept is as aflavouring agent but also for texture? I assume you would get the lumps at the bottom or does it floatkind of like a marshmallow in hot chocolate concept?Oh and how much would one typically add to say a 250ml mug of hot chocolate? And how do you make your hot chocolate, with milk or water?

Tom, the cheese is similar to mozarella. They call it 'queso campesino' or country/peasant cheese. There are some videos on youtube of the process to make it.

Some people use mozarella, it's a matter of personal choice. The cheese is cut into cubes and put into the cup to heat up before drinking. The queso campesino retains its structure and becomes chewy, which is really nice. I guess a more neutral flavor is preferable to more mature cheeses.

I have never heard of this before but it is something I would be interested in trying. So what is 'white cheese', could you liken it to a type? Is it a soft salty cheese like ricotta or something more mature, less salty like fetta?

Chirag, thanks for resurrecting this thread, I had missed it earlier.

I can say that the hot chocolate we drink in Colombia is very popular with a favorite being the addition of white cheese, which melts in the chocolate and also releases some slightly sour milk fat. Very good. Not sure if it is common elsewhere.I do remember friends from the UK who were shocked and refused to put cheese in their hot chocolate.

Brad:

i hope youdon'tmind me asking, but when u say garam masala, what combination of spices are u refering to?

here in India we have 28 states and each one has their own blend of garam masala.

Try this recipe:

1 oz pure liquor / unsweetened chocolate (the best you can buy)

3 oz regular granulated sugar

8 oz homogonized milk

2 tsp cornstarch

Mix the cornstarch with the sugar.

shave the liquor

bring the milk to a boil

Remove the milk from the heat and add the sugar and liquor and whisk until thick and creamy.

If you want it sweeter, add more sugar. If you want it darker add more liquor. If you want it thinner use less cornstarch, and if you want it thicker, add just a wee bit more.

Let me know how that works for you.

Then you can experiment with various combinationsof the following:

1/2 tsp cinnamon

3/4 tsp chinese 5 spice powder

1/8 tsp cloves

1/2 tsp allspice and cayenne pepper

3/4 tsp garam masala & 1 tsp vanilla (awesome earthy woodsy flavour)

Hope that helps. Let me know how that works for you.

Brad.

Oh... and Iprefer milk chocolate over dark chocolate too! But, shhhhhh! Don't tell anyone!

Hey Adam and Brad,

I know this might sound terrible on such a chocolate forum but I love milk chocolate. Especially cadburys milk drinking chocolate (Chocolaty, milky and sweet). My wife and I have tried to make a hot milk chocolate drink at home a million times using all sorts of recipes we found on the internet but nothing comes close. We want to try to make it from base ingredients. We've tried melting dark chocolate and mixing with dried milk powder and cocoa butter, then putting it all in a pot with some milk. Tastes ok but is still too bitter. Any suggestions on how tomake a good milk hot chocolate without using cocoa powder?

cheers

orin

Hi, Brad. Thanks so much for your feedback. Going through your thoughts in order

1. I agree it could sound pretentious, but its not as evil as it at first looks. My first impulse with the recipe was just take a pre-established blend like Cluizels 72% and sweeten it with a little milk chocolate. But just using even that one pre-blended bar, Id already have South American, African and Javan single origins, as well as vanilla, in the mix. My final product is basically the exact same idea 3 single origins and a little vanilla but with two other single origins in very small proportions to the others, to help round out some of the tones. That said, the Porcelana is in the greatest supply, so its pretty obvious. I just didnt want to go the pure single origin route, as thats where I think the Parisian chefs I referenced seemed to stop.But Ill see if I can rebalance things enough that I can lop off the Chuao, which is what I use in the smallest supply.
2. Im using bars, as Im doing it European/French/Parisian style. Sugar is already incorporated into the tablettes used + the recipe can be more easily sourced and duplicated by purchasing the same bars. If only people would follow any recipe I put out, I would just start with raw cacao and hand-mill it like the Mayans ;)
3. Ive considered the use of cornstarch, but Im trying to stick to the French style and not use it. Going full-on authentic with the ancient recipe, I think wed have to use cornmeal. But Im not entirely opposed to extracting the starch from fresh corn, via more modern methods. Perhaps.

Thanks again for your thoughts. - Adam

Couple of questions:

1. Why create such a complex blend? Without coming across as a jerk, to me the blend sounds pretentious. As soon as you add milk and various spices to it, 99% of the population won't notice the difference. In fact I would hazard a guess that not even the most refined chocolate pallates in the world will be able to pick out the nuancesin the various bars you are using. This is the same philosophy as taking an $80 bottle of shiraz and using it in a stew. It's a waste, as other flavours overpower the delicate nuances in the wine, just as other flavours in your drink (and the milk too) overpower the nuancespresent in each ofthe chocolates you are blending together.

2. Why are you using chocolate? You don't have near the control you would if you used liquor.

3. Traditional drinking chocolate is thickened with corn starch. You can create a very rich, creamy drink without all the fat by using 3.25% homogonized milk and cornstarch. There's enough fat already in the chocolate / liquor. No need to add more in the form of animal fat. At the same time you can boast to your customers that you are taking them closer to the origin of chocolate than the guy next door.

My experience for what it's worth, and we've been written up all over Canada for the drinking chocolate we offer.

Cheers

Brad